Taahliah
From Glasgow to Berlin and back, TAAHLIAH has developed her sound as a love letter to herself. Carved in art school hallways, deepened on dance floors and ultimately falling in love in as many ways as possible, TAAHLIAH shares the initial iterations of her biggest public project to date over the phone with Sisi Savidge.
I’m excited to get to know you a little bit better. I’ve just been listening now to your project that is coming out in May [EP]. But first I want to ask where you are because, when I look you up, you are listed as this Glasgow and Berlin DJ, producer and performer. I’m in Berlin right now, are you in Glasgow?
Yeah I’m in Glasgow. Yeah so I live and am based in Glasgow. I lived in Berlin for just over half a year towards the end of 2019. I think that because I was starting to become a little bit more well known when I was in Berlin is why that location is tied to my name and when I moved to Berlin that was when I started making music properly. But totally Glasgow born and bred.
Yeah you feel very stoically a Scott in your roots?
Yeah, I’m definitely Scottish! I want to try and stay in Glasgow for as long as artistically possible but I feel like things might change…it seems that anyone who goes into art or music or whatever subsequently goes to London at some point so I’m trying to not cave into that. I grew up in a town just outside of Glasgow called Kilmarnock. It’s a really not great area. So I grew up there and then moved to Glasgow for art school in 2017.
What were you doing at the art school?
I’m still there studying painting and printmaking which is essentially a fine art course but I don’t paint or do printmaking, I do music and performance; sound work. So, wouldn’t say I’m a lone wolf but everyone else on my course is painting or printmaking or doing some form of visual art and I’m just there making music and planning performances around it.
So you feel like you’re kind of sticking out a little bit and everyone is a bit more traditional somehow?
Yeah, not that that is anyone’s fault. It’s neither a good or a bad thing. It’s quite strange being there because I started creating this kind of more traditional visual art when I was twelve. Then I got into DJing and I started to fall out of love with [visual art] a bit. I found I was making paintings for people to tell me they looked good. I got bored of that and then when I started making music I was like “oh it feels like i’m making this music for myself regardless of whether people like it or not.” You know, I’m doing it for me. If people like it, it’s a bonus and now it’s my job which I love. It’s different when you have a passion of yours that’s like a hobby and obviously it’s different when it’s your career because I feel the pressure to be good and different and original.
Yeah what does that feel like? The pressure to be original is a really strange one because it’s like society is expecting you to create something before you have almost had the thought yourself.
I feel like nothing is original. Genuinely. Everything is a remix or a re-fix of something. How intense that remix is depends on the artist. I think navigating originality can be quite difficult sometimes but it does force you to think of things in a different way. I feel like there is definitely originality in my work to some degree and I feel like any kind of artist that is a minority of society is always doing something more original; something different. Yeah I think when you are an artist who is also a minority sometimes the originality is found within the emotion of the work and what you have to say. A lot of my work recently has been categorised as political. I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s incorrect but I think that a lot of the political significance lies in the emotion of the work rather than me saying something that’s quite direct ,if that makes sense.
So it’s kind of like you’re creating and expressing your experience and that’s interpreted as political because it has to be because your experience is…
Yeah exactly because I’m black and trans and all those other things.
Is there something slightly frustrating about this…I mean everywhere I’m reading about you before it was like you’re a trailblazer and ‘the first one’. These are amazing accolades you know. Paving the way as the first black trans artist for the Scottish alternative music awards, for example. Do you feel sometimes perhaps a little bit swamped by that, you know that these things can precede you somehow?
I don’t think so, I think because being black and trans is so inherently me and it’s what I constantly face, not in a negative way because it’s just who I am and I’m very happy and proud to be who I am. So I feel like those signifiers in my career I’m not shy about; I really do love them and it’s really humbling to know that that is who you are and that is what you have behind your name. Whether it puts a pressure on what I need to do I don’t know because I never feel like my work is bad, maybe sometimes when I make a song I think perhaps it’s lacking something but I never innately think it’s bad. There’s always going to be someone who loves what you do even if the person next to them thinks it’s garbage. I’m never scared of disappointing people because I know that someone is going to like it and even if that someone is just me that’s okay.
Yeah I feel that. How does it feel at the moment as I’m assuming you are almost in an echo chamber because of Covid and so when you’re playing music you really don’t have any kind of audience at all or anyone to feedback and bounce back?
Yeah that’s difficult. I think one thing that I was thinking about earlier was studio stations and being able to collaborate face to face with artists and actually learn things from other artists and producers. But actually to be honest, I never really experienced it before lockdown anyway because I got back from Berlin just as lockdown happened. I would love to truly be able to experience this and really bounce ideas off one another artistically in person. I feel like nothing really compares to stuff in real life obviously. But yeah, it’s different because the only kind of feedback I can get is from my label [untitled recs], my manager or my friends. Like if I were to send songs to my friends they’re going to love it anyway so sometimes it’s hard to get critiques if that makes sense.
Do you have people that you send out your demos to and will they give you a hard time or everyone tells you they love it?
I’ve never had anyone say it’s inherently shit. My best friend Blaire is really into electronic music and he has a really brilliant knowledge of it so whenever I send things to him I always expect a form of constructive and creative criticism that I can use. Whereas if I were to send it to another friend or someone I’m close to it’s perhaps more…I’m trying to find the word. I’m dyslexic so sometimes I find it hard to pick out words. I’m more trying to find out the general vibe of the song. Does that make sense?
I think so.
I hope it does. If I were to send it to another friend or whatever they could be like okay so this is more sad or whatever but they would never say flat out “Taahliah this is absolutely shit.”
Can you imagine?!
I would never send them my work again! But then also there is a mental significance of knowingly sending a song to someone and that they will say it’s good and then feeling good about that.
Yeah there is that kind of ego balancing somehow.
Also there will be times where I’ll just make music and I’ll want to share it with someone because I know they will enjoy it and they always do. So sometimes it feels more of a gift because you’re saying “I love you so much and I think you will really enjoy this.”
I want to talk about ‘Brave’ which came out on the fifth [of February] because this is the first one of the big project which is coming out May right? This is kind of your, please correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t want to overstep, this seems like the kind of coming home to your experience of being trans as expressing it outward and sharing it with support and solidarity but also with intention and ownership.
Yeah so I originally made the instrumental and I titled it ‘Brave’ purely because I feel like during that time [of creation] when I’d bump into people on nights out and they knew I was trans there would always be a comment of “oh you’re so brave for doing this, you’re so brave for being yourself blah blah blah” and I just thought it was an interesting take on it because I never intrinsically feel brave in any way. Perhaps coming to terms with being trans shows a bravery in itself because you know you are going against normative values that could give you an easier life but also in essence a much more miserable life. So I titled it ‘Brave’ not because I was necessarily sick of people calling me brave but more so because I found it interesting that just the act of coming out, not even talking so deeply, just that thing of letting people know who you are instantly just blows their mind. I say ‘their’ as in cis people. There is never a similar comprehension to what the experience is like because they are cis and they have always identified as who they are and have never rejected that in any way. Whereas when you are trans you reject this identity that you’ve had for years and years that everyone knows you as. You don’t even accept your own identity, it’s like you accept the fact that you are not that person and, after you have accepted that, you’re piecing yourself together through the months and years and for however long you’re on this earth.
No you’ve created quite a beautiful audio visual picture of collaging and re-collaging the self.
Yeah, as much as I’m not the person that I was before I transitioned or before I even came out as trans, I’m still also that same person. It’s very strange. But with ‘Brave’ I made the instrumental and then I sent it to Sophie, [the vocalist on the track] then we came up with lyrics. At first, I sent her just very rough lyrical ideas; sort of a poem that I wrote to myself. We then took bits out and then she wrote parts and put it back together again. What I also enjoy about this song is it’s very much written like a love song, it’s not necessarily about a person but for me reading between the lines and the lyrics there’s no other person involved. It’s just me and my head and dealing with the fact that I needed to completely reshuffle my existence to feel okay.
Can we talk about the whole project? I know that it’s a little bit in the future but I feel like it’s interesting to make almost a preview somehow. I found the journey through the whole project, having heard ‘Brave’ first and then going all the way through was so interesting because of different collaborators, elements of repetition. There’s this line of “no more drowning” which is on the track ‘Tears’. Can you explain a little bit more about the journey of this full project?
I remember trying to describe it to one of my friends and I described it as a love letter to myself. ‘Brave’ is about coming out as trans. ‘Tears’ is about a break up. ‘Bourgeoisie’ is about being working class. ‘Never Loose’ is about being non-binary. ‘FMH’ is about sex and the experience of sex as a trans person. ‘Trans Dimensional’ is very much about transitioning so sort of getting from that metaphysical A to B. Sometimes I don’t like the idea of transition. ‘Free Falling’ is about love. It’s just a pure love song about someone who I love very deeply. So the project in itself is kind of a mishmash about what I’ve been experiencing up until now and kind of sharing that with the world I guess.
How long have you been working on this?
I always knew I wanted to release an EP. I was always working towards an EP ever since I got signed to Untitled during the first lockdown, around June time last year. I originally was going to have it as four tracks and quite a simple portrait of myself. But as I started to make more music and collaborate with people it started to feel like a real project, so sometimes I’m skeptical to call it an EP because it almost feels like a mini album. I mean there’s seven tracks which is quite a lot for something that’s classed as an EP. Again all of it was made during corona time, I kind of like that to not necessarily feel the pressure of other people in the room or feel the pressure of having to work towards deadlines. I always knew my EP would come out in May this year but the only reason I knew that was because that’s when I graduate from art school and essentially my EP is my degree show. So I’ve kind of killed five hundred birds with one stone.
Yeah you have! You’ve nailed it. I should have done that at art school…genius.
The collaborators on the track are people that I really admire that I’ve worked with. Spent is a fantastic rapper and producer and they’re so overwhelmingly talented and Kavari who’s on ‘Trans Dimensional’ is just the most insane sound designer and producer. She’s also trans which is why I really love the idea of creating a piece of work about transitioning by two femme trans music producers, I think that’s really cool. Then Lady Neptune on ‘Tears’ is just an incredible music maker. I just love the song that we were able to create with each other. Then obviously Sophie is on ‘Brave’ and ‘Free Falling’ but not officially credited because she’s also sorting herself out artistically. Me and Sophie work so well together, we are able to create such fantastic pop songs. Yeah it’s a really lovely working relationship. This EP feels like a piece of my soul so when it goes out it’s going to be quite..not intense, but it’s going to be interesting to see how people take it. I hope that it does well or at least I hope it reaches a lot of ears and people are able to take away something from it.
What does the concept of doing well look like for you?
Just people enjoying it. I try not to focus on numbers too much or think about numbers because I’m still so early on in my career that I’m not expecting to really quantify anything. Just a reasonable amount of people listening to it, and relating to it. Especially people of colour, trans people and queer people. If they are able to get anything from the work at all then I feel like my job has been done…or I’ve done a good job in my mind. If queer people are able to turn the song on and dance to it or cry to it then the jobs a goodun.
I love that! Where are you looking forward to playing when you can?
I think Glasgow first and foremost. I’m just excited to perform within Glasgow in itself purely because of nostalgia. I always have a brilliant time performing here and DJing because all my friends are in the crowd and it’s just a really nice atmosphere. I feel like anywhere at all at this point, it’s not that I have a dream list of places that I want to perform because I don’t really want to limit myself in that way because sometimes the least exciting of bookings can be the most surprising and most fun. Any crowd that’s not in my bedroom is the dream at this point!
I bet! How did you connect with Untitled? I know a few of the bands that are there from growing up together and stuff which was a weird coincidence. How did it happen for you?
Basically while performing in Glasgow. I was opening for Sophie actually, the late and great and that was September 2019 and someone had filmed me and put it on their story. Alex, who is now my manager, saw it and then got in contact with me but by that point I had moved to Berlin. I opened for Sophie and then two days later I fully moved to Berlin so it was very much a back and forth. Alex was always interested in what I was doing and I would send him stuff and we would talk about it. I’d been in Berlin for about a month, I was playing a gig in London and met up with Alex, so I killed two birds with one stone. Afterwards, I went back to Berlin and kept working on music and it again it got to a back and forth and then, around April-May time, Alex told me we had a deal, so I got signed from there. It’s been a lovely and natural relationship. It happened purely by luck, like by some kind of higher force.
It’s fantastic, Alex and Vince are so supportive. It’s also why I love it so much [at Untitled] because I don’t feel restrained in any way; they very much want me to do exactly what I want to do. I’m very much in control creatively, artistically. I want to know who’s working on what, who’s mixing what, who’s mastering what, because if I can give any kind of paid opportunity to any sort of person of colour or queer person or woman then I want to do that. I want to work with those people, I don’t want to work with people that perhaps everyone else works with because I don’t find that very interesting in my mind.
In terms of your visual output where are you going with that? I mean your press shots that I was sent were so sick. They were really beautiful!
I feel like I’ve not really been able to explore the visual aesthetics of Taahliah at the moment purely because of corona. I’m trying to navigate how I want my image to be put across and what I want to do with it. I heard FKA twigs do an interview and she was talking about the fact that when she first started releasing music she didn’t have any images of herself tied to the music and everyone was finding her so otherworldly and very experimental but as soon as people saw that she was mixed race they immediately started to label her work as R&B and it’s not R&B. So I do find it interesting that images are not attached to the work…sometimes I think if I didn’t have my press shots up and people didn’t know that I was black and trans would people engage with the music more. I think about those things in my head.
Like if you say it then it’s too much focus then if you don’t say it then…
Yeah, exactly, but I’m excited to work with the visual stuff. There’s going to be three singles before the project and I’m creating the artwork for them and they’re all personal objects of mine. The one for ‘Brave’ was the first necklace that I bought after I came out as trans so I thought that was a lovely motif to have for a song about coming to terms with being trans.
This is the one that’s this little gold one with a little heart..?
Yeah.
Ah it’s so nice.
Then the next single is about gender and about the rejection of gender and how we deal with gender as non-binary people. Yeah the artwork for that is a packet of my hormones so just a packet of pills. Then the last single which is ‘Free Falling’ that is a t-shirt which was made for me by the person who the song’s about. So it’s a very personalised nod to the experience of each song with the singles covers and then the EP artwork or the project artwork is going to be me so I quite liked that contrast of having this kind of faceless name to the work up until the project comes out then it’s fully my face.
Also I’m thinking also about the safety of objects and how we can keep and retain energy and how we can share different energetic perceptions with the presentation of objects. I guess you are almost, not buying time but leaving some space for you to come into yourself again in this next phase as an artist before you are unveiled.
That’s very much the idea that I had, also with the project title and these motifs to other worldly visual elements and that step outside the physical realm. Just trying to connect that with transness, like you are stepping above the physicality of what your gender is. Sort of looking at trans people as angels or black people as angels is where I got the project title from. Yeah and creating space for that, especially for black people or people of colour there’s this visual cue that’s hard and rough. feel like I don’t the way that black people are portrayed in the media and perhaps with social media itself we always have to be tough or hard and be able to withstand everything. We are expected to have so much patience. Also with trans people and queer people we always have to be hard and tough 24/7, and we are always expected to have a thick skin, so I want to want to tap into softness and use motifs of vulnerability throughout the full project considering it’s about very personal things that have happened in my own life.
How does it feel putting out such a personal project?
I’m excited for everyone to hear it! I think I also hold certain elements in private. It's not as if I’m going to tell everyone explicitly who each song is about or what it’s about but I do like the categorisation I’ve given each song…the bigger message of it all and for people to be able to tap into it. I think because I’ve been working towards it since last summer, the idea of it being out there and being finished doesn’t really feel that real to me. I think once the artwork is all finalised and the mixing and mastering has been done and each project is complete with the visuals I think probably then it will sink in but right now it just feels a bit unreachable even though it’s literally coming out in May.
Yeah it’s been in this gestation mode for so long…
Yeah I’ve been stirring the pot since last summer and I think it will probably be once the last single has been released that I’ll start freaking out. I just hope that people like it. That’s the only thing that I hope for.
How do you find this space to collaborate authentically during Covid times?
I feel like I’m not interested in collaborating with big artists or big names as long as the person I’m collaborating with has a particular vision or is whole heartedly interested in particular topics or anything like that. As long as the artist has their own vision I feel like any collaboration feels quite authentic even if it’s just over text or FaceTime. I have really enjoyed being able to connect with people online…I very much grew up that way connecting with people online through Tumblr. I don’t like having that pressure of having to perform while I’m working as well so it’s been really nice and definitely less pressurising but I’m at a point now where I feel as if I’m definitely yearning for that artistic back and forth with collaborators; showing each other different ways of working and being able to build on that knowledge and just become a better music producer to be honest.
Yeah for sure! What do you have coming next in your projects after this release in May?
Oh geez I don’t know. I’ve been making music and I think that it depends on what direction I want to go; whether I want to release another mini project or if I want to release a bigger project but there’s definitely more songs there. I feel like I definitely want to take time with my project in May and sort of focus more on live performance whenever that will be. I want to try to put on this experiential show that also involves different DJ’ and producers, so not just having a live gig but perhaps more of an event to which there’s multiple performances and performers and creating a bigger space for everyone rather than going to a gig for two hours and leaving. I want to create something more intense and perhaps travel and perform in different places and stuff and see where my music takes me. I definitely want to produce for more people as well and I want to be able to offer myself up artistically for other people and have features on other peoples’ tracks and make work with interesting people.
Sick, the future is yours.
Hopefully!
I hope so, I feel it! Is there anything that you might want to let me know about also?
Just that the next single will be out next month and the next one after that and then the project the following month. So I’ve got quite a nice timeline to work on which is nice. But thank you for talking to me. This has been fabulous.
Thank you for talking to me! I have really enjoyed it and I’ve also really enjoyed listening to your music as well.
Good I’m glad.
Love to you! I look forward to your future.
interview SISI SAVIDGE
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